Coming from Mastercam and Fusion 360 to Esprit. What to expect?

[CAMasochism]

I dislike the idea of subscription based software, but have said it many times over on this forum, they will all go this route at some point. I get it from a business standpoint, they are in business to make money and this is an increased income generator. I would do the same thing!

I did a 3 year perpetual license that gets me to end of 2025 with my CAD/CAM seat and if they haven't eliminated perpetual licensing by then I'll do another 3-5 year deal. To me I just like the idea of falling back on something, I hate the idea that if I decide to switch software I lose access to my files, so keeping a perpetual license if I ever move still allows me to have access to years previous files. But of course one can argue opening a 5 year old program is "old" and should be re programmed anyway.

Just imagine buying a hammer from Ace only to be told that you have to pay a monthly fee for it to function, and every year they start hounding you to buy HAMMER v2.15! now with .02% more hammer surface! Software companies make me wish for Theodore Roosevelt to be reincarnated and beat the crap out of the whole industry.

As is being spread more and more online, "If buying isn't owning, piracy isn't theft."

As for old programs, we have programs that are over 10 years old that we still run on a regular basis just because the parts haven't changed in all that time, and with over 14,000 programs we would be spending all of our time just redoing old programs for parts what we may never get an order for again.

 

[Marvel]

Just imagine buying a hammer from Ace only to be told that you have to pay a monthly fee for it to function, and every year they start hounding you to buy HAMMER v2.15! now with .02% more hammer surface! Software companies make me wish for Theodore Roosevelt to be reincarnated and beat the crap out of the whole industry.

As is being spread more and more online, "If buying isn't owning, piracy isn't theft."

As for old programs, we have programs that are over 10 years old that we still run on a regular basis just because the parts haven't changed in all that time, and with over 14,000 programs we would be spending all of our time just redoing old programs for parts what we may never get an order for again.

"If buying isn't owning, piracy isn't theft" -

I just inquired recently about a automatic football field paint stripping machine, sat on the phone through a full spiel to be told the cost $8000/year for 6 years and then you renew cause at 6 years it HAS to be upgraded. My response was - SOOOOO $8000/year FOREVER?! Yea no thanks......

Most my programs are fairly simple, but I have quite a few that I have many hours into perfecting and updating based on the actual, there is no way in hell I am going to reprogram them. So keeping my seat once they all go to subscription is important to me, you, and I'm sure many others.

 

[Areo Defense]

I dislike the idea of subscription based software, but have said it many times over on this forum, they will all go this route at some point. I get it from a business standpoint, they are in business to make money and this is an increased income generator. I would do the same thing!

I did a 3 year perpetual license that gets me to end of 2025 with my CAD/CAM seat and if they haven't eliminated perpetual licensing by then I'll do another 3-5 year deal. To me I just like the idea of falling back on something, I hate the idea that if I decide to switch software I lose access to my files, so keeping a perpetual license if I ever move still allows me to have access to years previous files. But of course one can argue opening a 5 year old program is "old" and should be re programmed anyway.

I totally hear what you're saying, I feel the same even though I know eventually my company and the ones I consult for will all be in the boat. This is undoubtedly the most impactful change in cad/cam/cae that universally disgusts every user and eng. manager.

 

[Marvel]

I totally hear what you're saying, I feel the same even though I know eventually my company and the ones I consult for will all be in the boat. This is undoubtedly the most impactful change in cad/cam/cae that universally disgusts every user and eng. manager.

I see it being ridiculous, expensive and annoying for end users for a while, but in the long term it may become similar to what we saw with cell phone companies 15 years ago, contract obligations being dropped, a battle of best pricing, allowing users to easily move around, but there's always going to be that loss of file usage that will be a pain for many.

I think the next 2-3 years the CAD/CAM world is going to see some big changes, a big shift.

 

[metal-ica]

My buddy installed a cracked version of catia on his home computer. He opened a work file on it and somehow or another the mothership was flagged and his employer got a demand letter and they had to buy another seat or module... I forget exactly but it wasn't cheap.

How can these companies enforce these eula's if it's not a company? Don't they need to prove who the person is on the other end of the line?

 

[mhajicek]

Imagine if every part you produced, you could RENT to your clients. If they ever stop paying rent on the part, they have to return it to you immediately or face criminal charges, no matter where the part is or what it's being used for.

Subscription software is rent seeking behavior; it's part of what has been dubbed "enshitification", extracting more and more money for less and less work and value. The only way to prevent it is to vote with your wallet and refuse to subscribe.

 

[jaguar36]

My buddy installed a cracked version of catia on his home computer. He opened a work file on it and somehow or another the mothership was flagged and his employer got a demand letter and they had to buy another seat or module... I forget exactly but it wasn't cheap.

How can these companies enforce these eula's if it's not a company? Don't they need to prove who the person is on the other end of the line?

I've heard that of Siemens regarding NX before as well. I assume they don't really need to prove it, they just need to make it cost you more in legal fees than in licensing fees.

Imagine if every part you produced, you could RENT to your clients. If they ever stop paying rent on the part, they have to return it to you immediately or face criminal charges, no matter where the part is or what it's being used for.

Subscription software is rent seeking behavior; it's part of what has been dubbed "enshitification", extracting more and more money for less and less work and value. The only way to prevent it is to vote with your wallet and refuse to subscribe.

Car makers figured this out years ago, and leases are very popular. I would love if subscriptions went away, but I doubt they will. Too many companies like them and the development cost to creating a new CAD/CAM software are way to massive for someone new to come in.

 

[mhajicek]

Car makers figured this out years ago, and leases are very popular. I would love if subscriptions went away, but I doubt they will. Too many companies like them and the development cost to creating a new CAD/CAM software are way to massive for someone new to come in.

New people do come in once in a while. Corporate policy is generally to buy them up and shut them down to prevent competition, because antitrust laws are not enforced. This is why Autodesk is on the permanent boycott list.

It's an adversarial situation; if we give them everything they want, we'll pay them everything and get nothing in return. I'm not willing to do business that way. Fortunately, I still have a hardware dongle with a permanent license that does everything I need for now, and should continue to do what it does indefinitely, so long as I can maintain a compatible computer or VM.

 

[empower]

I've heard that of Siemens regarding NX before as well. I assume they don't really need to prove it, they just need to make it cost you more in legal fees than in licensing fees.


Car makers figured this out years ago, and leases are very popular. I would love if subscriptions went away, but I doubt they will. Too many companies like them and the development cost to creating a new CAD/CAM software are way to massive for someone new to come in.

had that happen to me with mastercrash. if you're gonna do something like this - airgap.

 

[MetalMetz]

haven't tried it, i loved mastercam, hated solidworks and NX, fusion is meh... esprit looks awesome for maching simulation though, no more need for vericut sofware i would think

 

[Jatrox]

haven't tried it, i loved mastercam, hated solidworks and NX, fusion is meh... esprit looks awesome for maching simulation though, no more need for vericut sofware i would think

Esprit is just like the rest in the sense that it's only as good as the post processor. Yes you can get a pretty detailed sim but I would still use a verification program. The sim runs off the source code, not the posted code.

 

[Machinerer]

It seems like a lot of guys seem to dislike it, but most people I know who used Esprit for any length of time, or who learned on Esprit, love it. Esprit was the first cam software I learned on (aside from some real basic stuff in OneCNC) and I still miss Esprit, after being a Mastercam user for 5 years now. Mastercam just feels like nobody ever finished it.

 

[Mcfish]

Mastercam just feels like nobody ever finished it.

I'm a long time Mastercam user and I never thought of it, but you're right. It does seem like they made it through the turn but never got to the finish line.

 

[Marvel]

It seems like a lot of guys seem to dislike it, but most people I know who used Esprit for any length of time, or who learned on Esprit, love it. Esprit was the first cam software I learned on (aside from some real basic stuff in OneCNC) and I still miss Esprit,

I think this follows with all CAM software. You get a lot of us that are just stuck in our ways, we are used to what we were taught on or predominantly use and when the opportunity comes to try or use something most of us don't give it a chance and piss and moan about this or that and say XXX did it better.